In our previous entry of Living Legends we spoke with law enforcement veteran, competitor, and writer Simon Golob. Today we have the opportunity to chat with “The Tactical Professor”, Claude Werner.
Interview with Claude Werner
I’m not quite sure when I first became aware of Claude Werner, but we’re closing in on a decade of me being familiar with his work. While I’ve never had the opportunity to personally meet him, his material has been extremely impactful on my mindset and opinions. Known for deeper thinking on the potential negative outcomes association with misuse of firearms, along with looks at how real people carry real guns in real life, he has a unique voice in the community. Let’s dive in to our interview with Claude Werner.
Q: We’ll start off with a little bit of your background. What first got you into guns, your professional experience, etc.
My father taught me to shoot a pistol when I was eight years old. We shot a lot when I was a teen. I enlisted in the Army right after I graduated from high school and ended up spending the majority of my career in Special Operations. Shortly before I retired, I became an NRA Instructor and I’m certified in six disciplines. Good fortune put me into the elite Rogers Shooting School as a student and eventually I became the Chief Instructor. When IDPA started, it got me interested in shooting regularly and I competed heavily for 16 years, as well as being the Match Director for two clubs. I hold a Double Distinguished Expert Rating from the NRA.
Tom Givens invited me to present at the first Tactical Conference in 2004 and I’ve presented almost every year since then. They gave me the title of ‘TacCon Historian’ because I like to write about it and spread the word through the community.
Q: If there was a discernable shift to “being serious” about guns, what brought that about?
I’ve always been serious. My father and grandfather were bodyguards for Chicago politicians before I was born. My father started teaching me how to think about personal protection when I was still a young boy.
“Try to get along with everyone, Son, but don’t let anyone hurt you.” It’s a dictum I’ve followed my entire life.
Lieutenant Commander Schaufelberger’s 1983 assassination in El Salvador made it very clear to us in Special Operations that minor lapses in awareness and judgement could cost us our lives. https://thetacticalprofessor.net/2018/05/25/in-memoriam-albert-schaufelberger/
Q: Do you have any especially notable mentors? If so, what are some things that they did for/to you which stand out?
When I took my first class with John Farnam, he explained his concept of Living With Guns. The importance of skills beyond marksmanship, such as gunhandling and good judgement have stuck with me ever since.
Andy Stanford encouraged me to start teaching and got me started in the business. I will always be grateful for that push.
Bill Rogers provided me with the structure I use in my classes. Progression, repetition, and spot shooting are at the core of what I teach about marksmanship.
A soldier and trainer who has gone by the pen name of ‘Bill Thompson’ taught me the structure for much of my detailed thinking about the nuances of personal protection. He gave me the mental framework that I teach to others.
Q: Tell us about any specially fond memories you have from your career, as an instructor, other firearms or defense related experiences?
Two police officers I had trained emailed me to say, “What you taught me saved my life.” That’s gratifying.
Three of my clients have had armed encounters with home invaders. All three triumphed without injury but the invaders were not so fortunate. Another win.
One of my clients told me years later that the concept of spot shooting I taught his class has stuck with him ever since. He’s a very good shooter, which made it clear to me how well the concept works.
Q: One of the things that I think you’re known for is taking a “normal earth person’s” approach to concealed carry. Using guns such as the Ruger LCP and small lightweight revolvers in inexpensive holsters and alternative carry locations. What drove you to explore this area of carry, and how has that informed the way in which you teach and write?
I’ve spent much of my life in Non-Permissive Environments. It simply wasn’t possible for me to carry what I call ‘a partridge in a pear tree’ of equipment. Minimal gear that could get the job done was all I could use.
Thirty-five years of research on the NRA Publications column ‘Armed Citizen’ further shaped my philosophy. Collecting information on thousands of incidents showed me that small guns can be very effective in the context of personal protection. After I got a police friend interested in the Armed Citizen, he said “Have a gun, be able to access the gun, be willing to use the gun; you’ll probably be all right.”
A trope that’s repeated periodically is ‘a small gun in your pocket is more useful than the big gun in your safe.’ That’s absolutely true but people forget its importance.
Q: A phrase I commonly hear attributed to you is “Positive outcomes reinforce negative tactics”. Can you expand on that for those who may be unfamiliar with that concept, and tell us where the phrase originated?
That phrase is from someone else; I first heard it from the late Paul Gomez. It has a different context than my philosophy and teaching.
I’m probably best known for the related topic of Negative Outcomes that result from Serious Mistakes Gunowners Make. My book about the topic was ground breaking in the industry. We don’t like to talk about how situations sometimes are worsened by doing something that wasn’t in our best interest in the first place. Ignorance isn’t bliss in this case, so I wrote the book about how mistakes can mar our lives forever.
Q: Are there any hard lessons learned for you that changed the way you do things, or that you’d like to relay to the readers?
A saying that is attributed to Will Rogers is “A smart man learns from watching other people’s mistakes.” My research into Negatives Outcomes and Serious Mistakes has guided me and my education to others.
Researching unfortunate occurrences shows us the kind of Serious Mistakes and Negative Outcomes that can occur to gunowners.
- Brandishing/threatening
- Chasing criminals after the end of a confrontation
- Downrange failures (gunowner who shoot an innocent while shooting at a threat)
- Intervention in criminal events not happening to the gun owner personally
- Proverbs 26:17 [KJV] “He that passeth by, and meddleth with strife belonging not to him, is like one that taketh a dog by the ears.”
- Lost/stolen guns
- Mistaken identity shootings
- Negligent discharges, including self-inflicted gunshot wounds and Unintentional shootings
- Police Involvement, such as being needlessly arrested or being shot by responding officers
- Poor judgement
- Frightening innocent people around you
- Endangering innocent people needlessly
- Celebratory gunfire
- Shooting without a proper backstop or around people
- Shooting someone you really didn’t need to, even when it’s eventually found legally justified at trial.
- Being stupid
- Unauthorized access of firearms (generally by small children)
- Unjustifiable shootings
Q: Is there anything you’d like to pass onto readers, whether they be instructors, competitors, or regular earth people?
Periodically ‘Concealed Carry Mistakes’ lists are posted on the Internet or written about in gun magazines. They usually revolve around simplistic issues, such as:
- Equipment issues; gun, holster, clothing, etc.
- Not getting enough training
- Not ‘knowing’ the law
- But the really Serious Mistakes that gunowners make are things like:
- Shooting yourself
- Shooting someone you shouldn’t have, either intentionally or unintentionally
- Getting needlessly arrested
- Getting shot by the police after you’ve thwarted a criminal attack against you
- Leaving guns where unauthorized persons can access them, which can result in tragedies
- Frightening innocent people around you
- Endangering innocent people needlessly
Q: Where can people find you, your work, or train with you?
https://thetacticalprofessor.net/
https://www.patreon.com/TacticalProfessor
https://www.youtube.com/@thetacticalprofessor
Wrapping Up Living Legends Interview with Claude Werner
Thank you to Claude for taking part in this series! We are big fans of the Tactical Professor here at Primer Peak, and this is the first entry into Living Legends which generated buzz around the team when people found out about it. Be sure to visit Claude’s website, there’s a ton to read and learn, you’ll be doing yourself a favor.
Don’t forget to check out our other entries in this series:
Interview with Bruce Cartwright
Support My Work
If you made it this far, thanks for reading! Writing isn’t my full-time profession, and nearly everything I do comes out of my own pocket. Between ammunition, tuition, range fees and more, expenses add up fast. If you like what I have to offer, consider making a donation to my Patreon.
Every bit helps bring more work like this to you, and contributes to shortened timelines or more in-depth work on my part. You’ll also have more direct access to me, offering suggestions for future projects, looking behind the scenes, and getting early access to some content. You can find my Patreon >>HERE<<
Be the first to comment